Caesar: The men on Mt. Rushmore, when you were there in 33, 34, 35, 36- those years; did he get along with the men?

Matt: Oh yes- because…he could get along with the men because he had the ability…to fall in with the crowd.

Caesar: Did he hang around with the men, did he drink with the men, talk with them?

Matt: No, he wasn’t around like that-

Caesar: He was a loner, wasn’t he?

Matt: Loner, pertaining to, uh, the work- the men were all whiskey drinkers.

Caesar: He what?

Matt: I said the men were all whiskey drinkers, mostly.

Caesar: He was a wine drinker-

Matt: Yeah, well, he had his own wine, there- he didn’t mix it (Caesar laughs)

Caesar: Did you know him very well?  Did you-

Matt: Well, I know him well enough to sleep with him-

Caesar: (Chuckles) you slept with him- that’s pretty good! Did you get along- did you like my father? Not because I’m here- did you, uh, get along very well with my father?

Matt: Oh, yes, because he took me under his wing to make a pointer out of me.

Caesar: He taught you how to point, my father?

Matt: Yeah.

Caesar: My father was a very outgoing personality, wasn’t he?  Bianco; he spoke a lot, didn’t he?

Matt: No, I wouldn’t say too much.

Caesar: Not too much, eh?

Matt: No, he was, he was…he knew what...it was just like being a sculptor. He knew what to say and when to say it. He could get along very well with people. He had a mind of his own, too. You could tell when you were talking to him, when you give him an order whether it’d ring or not. If the bell didn’t ring right, he let you know it-

Caesar: (Laughs) True.  (Laughs again)  You got along very well with him, eh?

Matt: Oh, yes.

Caesar: Now, did these guys like Merle Peterson, Red Anderson, the so called carvers, but they’re not skilled- did they work on the eyes?

Matt: The…the eyes were finished by- by, uh, Borglum- and usually, with, uh, with uh, Bianco.

Caesar: That’s right…that’s right.

Matt: Cause Bianco he would, uh, take the orders from Borglum of how much to take off, how much to-

Caesar: And did Bianco- was Bianco- would you say-would you say that Bianco was the main carver, taking orders from Borglum, rather than Anderson and Peterson who weren’t as skilled?

Matt: Oh, yes- Bianco was-

Caesar: Probably the main carver-

Matt: He was the main carver-

Caesar: (Pause) you don’t know how good this makes me feel…

Lou: So just like you, Borglum had respect for Bianco.

Matt: Oh, yes, he respected Bianco.

Caesar: So would you say Bianco probably, was the uh-

Matt: He was the main carver.

Caesar: You would say he was the best carver?

Matt: Oh, yes.  You can see what ya got up there.